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> Why Daniel Is A Slav
Daniel
post Nov 4 2008, 11:25 AM
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I have had enough of begging on other threads for information, so here is your chance. Tell me why i am a Slav. And i dont want modern souses, nor do i want something that implies language=ethnicity, i want hard evidence of a large scale migration that happened in the 6th century and not some small invasions. So please, enlighten me.


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Hellenic Patriot
post Nov 4 2008, 07:09 PM
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ok mate, give me some time ill show you solid evidence that you and your republic are either Slav, Greek, Turkish or Albanian


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Hellenic Patriot
post Nov 6 2008, 12:49 PM
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Ok Mate here is a start.

The List of Macedonian Kings in Ancient Times
Karanus Κάρανος 808-778 BC
Koinos Κοινός
Tyrimmas Τυρίμμας
Perdiccas I Περδίκκας Αʹ 700-678 BC
Argaeus I Ἀργαῖος Αʹ 678-640 BC
Philip I Φίλιππος Αʹ 640-602 BC
Aeropus I Ἀέροπος Αʹ 602-576 BC
Alcetas I Ἀλκέτας Αʹ 576-547 BC
Amyntas I Ἀμύντας Αʹ 547-498 BC
Alexander I Ἀλέξανδρος Αʹ 498-454 BC
Alcetas II Ἀλκέτας Βʹ 454-448 BC
Perdiccas II Περδίκκας Βʹ 448-413 BC
Archelaus Ἀρχέλαος Αʹ 413-399 BC
Craterus Κρατερός 399 BC
Orestes Ὀρέστης and Aeropus II Ἀέροπος Βʹ 399-396 BC
Archelaus II Ἀρχέλαος Βʹ 396-393 BC
Amyntas II Ἀμύντας Βʹ 393 BC
Pausanias Παυσανίας 393 BC
Amyntas III Ἀμύντας Γʹ 393 BC
Argaeus II Ἀργαῖος Βʹ 393-392 BC
Amyntas III Ἀμύντας Γʹ 392-370 BC
Alexander II Ἀλέξανδρος Βʹ 370-368 BC
Perdiccas III Περδίκκας Γʹ 368-359 BC
Ptolemy of Aloros Πτολεμαῖος Αʹ, Regent of Macedon 368-365 BC
Amyntas IV Ἀμύντας Δʹ 359-356 BC
Philip II Φίλιππος Βʹ 359-336 BC
Alexander III, the Great Ἀλέξανδρος ὁ Μέγας 336-323 BC
Antipater Ἀντίπατρος, Regent of Macedon 334-323 BC
Philip III Arrhidaeus Φίλιππος Γʹ 323-317 BC and Alexander IV Ἀλέξανδρος Δʹ 323-310 BC[1]
Perdiccas Περδίκκας, Regent of the Macedon Empire 323-321 BC[2]
Antipater Ἀντίπατρος, Regent of the Macedon Empire 321-319 BC
Polyperchon Πολυπέρχων, Regent of the Macedon Empire 319-317 BC
Cassander Κάσανδρος, Regent of Macedon 317-305 BC

Look Closely that their names are not mear Serbian or Bulgerian names see where your name is Danche(Clearly not Greek)

The Macedonian King Dynasty of the Byzantine Empire:
867-886 Vasilios I
886-912 Leo VI
912-913 Alexandros
913-959 Constantine VII
920-944 Roman I Lacapine
959-963 Roman II
963-969 Nikiphoros II Fuccas
969-976 John I Cimiskios
976-1025 Vasilios II
1025-1028 Constantine VIII
1028-1034 Roman III Argyrus
1034-1041 Michael IV
1041-1042 Michael V
1042 Zoia, Theodora
1042-1055 Constantine IX Monomahos
1055-1056 Theodora
1056-1057 Michael VI


Still Clearly shows Greek names.

as much as you said don't drag ancient stuff in it i will

if you look at macedonian coins they state alot of Greek on them eg "Basileus twn Makedon" King of the Macedonians
Basilews Alexandroy, Fillipoy

terms which we still use today !

I don't need to say much more.

as an educated person would have already agreed with what I have stated, but i forgot your republic are all gypsy albanians with no brains

so enjoy your life of denial !


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Daniel
post Nov 6 2008, 01:50 PM
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i did ask for proof of a migration, but why not, as long as we get to the proof later.

I love the fact that you added letters to the ends of the names of the names of the kings of the Macedonian dynasty, like 867-886 Vasilios I lol

The correct set of names is
* Basil I
* Leo VI
* Alexander
* Constantine VII
* Romanos I
* Romanos II
* Nikephoros II
* John I
* Basil II
* Constantine VIII
* Zoe I
* Romanos III
* Michael IV
* Michael V
* Theodora
* Constantine IX
* Theodora

Alot less Greek now arent they.

QUOTE
if you look at macedonian coins they state alot of Greek on them eg "Basileus twn Makedon" King of the Macedonians
Basilews Alexandroy, Fillipoy

Yes, this is correct, but as i have said many many times, Koine was used as the language of trade and commerce, and what are coins.......commerce, correct. Koine was also used by other peoples in ancient times for this one reason, such as the Illyrians, are they Greek as well?

And as rule 2 of the forum guidelines states
QUOTE
keep to the topic in the thread

So please can you show me when my people came en mass into the Balkans




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Hellenic Patriot
post Nov 6 2008, 04:14 PM
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they directly from the source mate - http://www.neobyzantine.org/byzantium/empe...s/byzrulers.php

enjoy dont worry more facts too come


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makedonski
post Nov 7 2008, 01:42 AM
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Daniel............for gods sake...........why do you persist on complete nonsense..............seriously mate your responses only show me how sadly lacking you are in your knowledge............your are depressingly out of your depth with most arguments and we are sick and tired of having to continuously pull up the same NON GREEK material only for you to keep on harping on about wanting further "evidence"...............enough is enough mate ...........if you choose not to accept this independant material then you need to question your own ability to analyse information.

1. why anglicise the names above?
ie, Alexander ? whats that? mate it never was Alexander or Aleksandr or Alex...................IT ALWAYS WAS/IS/WILL BE A.L.E.X.A.N.D.R.O.S..........that word means something in Greek because it is Greek .............what does it mean in your language?
2. Basil ? mate the correct word is B.A.S.I.L.E.O.S...........again it means something in Greek but what does it mean in your language?
3. From previous posts which you have refused to respond to;
What does the word Solun mean? The correct Macedonian pronounciation is T.H.E.S.S.A.L.O.N.I.K.I.........it was named by a Macedonian and used as such since antiquity.
4. What does the word Phillipos mean in your language? It has a meaning Greek.
5. In your language, does the word Makedonia actually have a meaning? In Greek it means something.
6. Again after many previous examples of your slavic heritage.........you still refuse to acknowledge this F.A.C.T.
Damn, when you guys get together with the Serbs and Croatians, it's all about the Slav thing........you have joint SLAV nights with the Serbs.........when I speak to your countrymen, they all agree that your Slavs..........but for some reason you have the gall to come in here an attempt to educate us on your heritage?

FOR THE LAST TIME..........read, acknowledge and stop refusing to accept that you are nothing but of SLAVIC heritage.

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In the 6th century the Antes, together with the closely related Sclavini, began to attack the Balkan parts of the Byzantine Empire. At first they were interested only in booty and slaves, but by the second half of the 6th century the Antes began to settle in these lands. The Antes resettled so quickly that by the end of the 6th century the territories of contemporary Bulgaria and Yugoslavia were Slavicized.

http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/displ...\Antes.htm

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Apart form the Ohrid region, the Macedonian Slavic tribe Berzites also colonized the entire territory that stretched between the contemporary towns of Veles, Kavadarci, Prilep, Bitola, and Debar. The Byzantine writers started to call this whole territory "Sclavinia" (Sklabhnia).

Ever since the end of VI and the beginning of VII century radical ethnic changes occurred in the region of Ohrid. The devastated and robbed town of Lychnid was then named by a pure Slavic name of Ohrid. There are several explanations for the origin of the Slavic name. Prevailing is the one according to which the name Ohrid is entirely Slavic and that it is derived from the noun "hrid", hill .The form Ahrida or Ahris, most likely originates from the Slavic name Ohrid where "o>a".

Authors of travel chronicles wrote that Lake Lychnidos in the contemporary language was named Lake Ohrid as early as in X century[/b], during the times of Czar Samuel. In St. Naum's hagiography, the Lake was named "White Lake". This name corresponds to the one used by the Greeks, with the meaning "bright lake". At that time the entire Ohrid region became a part of "Sclavinia -Berzitia" that was governed by an independent Slavic duke. In "Sclavinia" the Byzantine Empire did not have any power whatsoever. In the history of Ohrid and its surroundings the period from the end of VI to the middle of IX century remains the most obscure and the least studied one.

The results of the archaeological excavations in Ohrid tell us that the Slavs - Berzites who inhabited the region gradually started to absorb a great deal of the native culture. At the same time with the progressive development of the town of Ohrid, from the beginning of VII century also the Macedonian medieval culture with its specific features started to emerge in the Ohrid region and in other parts of Macedonia. This culture was fully acknowledged in X century when the Macedonian medieval state was formed. It is evident from the known facts that both political and cultural influences of the Byzantine Empire ceased to affect Ohrid region by the end of VI century. "


http://www.ohrid.org.mk/eng/istorija/sloveni.htm

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"This area was settled by the Slavic tribe Beregheziti and gives the city the new name Skopje."

http://www.skopjeonline.com.mk/detalno.asp...avnoime=Culture

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http://www.makedonija.info/ottoman.html

The names of Georgi Pulevski, Stojan Vezenkovski, Popot Bufski and a whole pleiad of others who took part in the struggle of the cross against the crescent, meant a lot and still means a lot to the hearts of the South Slavs. And although Macedonia, after the unhappy Congress of Berlin had to remain under the rule of the Turks, it was only because it was closer than any other Slavs to the administrative centres of the Ottoman Empire

All this gave rise to a powerful resistance by the Macedonian Slavs

*****************************
http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/058/slavs.htm

Numerous Slavonic tribes inhabited Macedoniain the twenties of the 7th century. The Dragovites settled along the river Bistritsa and west of Thessalonika. the Velegisites settled next to them and to the north of them, between Ohrid, Bitola and Veles, settled the Versites (Brsyaks). The Sagoudats lived close to Thessalonika, east of them lived the Rinchininies, along the valley of the river Struma and Strumeshnitsa lived the Strumyans and on the east of the river Mesta lived the Smolyans. In the 6th century Thessalonika was an important military-strategic point of the Byzantine Empire on the Balkans, the biggest city on the Peninsula and, after Constantinople - the second biggest city one on the Balkans. The Macedonian Slavs attacked Thessalonika together with the Avars. According to the work of archbishop John in The wonders of Dimitry Solunski five siedges were incredibly strong. In the first half of the 7th century, many important leaders and princes (Hatson, Pribond, Akamir) appeared among the Macedonian SlavsAccording to Teofan Konfesor (760-818) and Anastasiy Bibliotekar (800-880) these regions were called "Sklavinii in Macedonia". In the second half of the IX century the Dragovites, the Sagoudats, theVelegisites, the Vayunites, the Versites had their own sklavinii. The sklavini were governed by arhonti (egsarhi) and some Slavonic tribes were ruled by regesi.

*****************************
Slavic Peoples - Macedonians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_peoples

*********************************

c. On 22 January 1999, Ambassador of the FYROM to USA, Ljubica Achevska gave a speech on the present situation in the Balkans. In answering questions at the end of her speech Mrs. Acevshka said: "We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great Ö Greece is Macedoniaís second largest trading partner, and its number one investor. Instead of opting for war, we have chosen the mediation of the United Nations, with talks on the ambassadorial level under Mr. Vance and Mr. Nemitz." In reply to another question about the ethnic origin of the people of FYROM, Ambassador Achevska stated that "we are Slavs and we speak a Slav language."
****************************
The London Times, Aug 14, P11.
"The Great bulk of the population of the rural population of Macedonia must be described as Slavonic"

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/1025/slavsofmak4ba.jpg

******************************
- "It should be remembered, to begin with, that there is no Macedonian race, as a distinct type. Macedonians may belong to any of the races of Eastern Europe or Western Asia, as, indeed, they do. A Macedonian Bulgar is just the same as a Bulgar of Bulgaria proper, the old principality, that in October, 1908, at Tirnova, was proclaimed independent of Turkey. He looks the same, talks the same, and very largely, thinks the same way. In short, he is of the same stock. There is no difference, whatsoever, between the two branches of the race, except that the Macedonian Bulgars, as a result of their position under the Turkish government, have less culture and education than their northern brethren."

[Arthur Douglas Howden Smith, "Fighting the Turk in the Balkans: An American's Adventures with the Macedonian Revolutionists", 1908, p. 4-5]

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1911 Enc Brittanica
http://36.1911encyclopedia.org/M/MA/MACEDONIA.htm
- With the exception of the southern and western districts already specified, the principal towns, and certain isolated tracts, the whole of Macedonia is inhabited by a race or The races speaking a Slavonic dialect. If language is Slavonic adopted as a test, the great bulk of the rural popula- Population. tion must be described as Slavonic. The Slays first crossed the Danube at the beginning of the 3rd century, but their great immigration took place in the 6th and 7th centuries. They overran the entire peninsula, driving the Greeks to the shores of the Aegean, the Albanians into the Mirdite country, and the latinized population of Macedonia into the highland districts, such as Pindus, Agrapha and Olympus. The Slays, a primitive agricultural and pastoral people, were often unsuccessful in their attacks on the fortified towns, which remained centres of Hellenism. In the outlying parts of the peninsula they were absorbed, or eventually driven back, by the original populations, but in the central region they probably assimilated a considerable proportion of the latinized races. The western portions of the peninsula were occupied by Serb and Slovene tribes: the Slays of the eastern and central portions were conquered at the end of the 7th century by the Bulgarians, a Ugro-Finnish horde, who established a despotic political organization, but being less numerous than the subjected race were eventually absorbed by it. The Mongolian physical type, which prevails in the districts between the Balkans and the Danube, is also found in central Macedonia, and may be recognized as far west as Ochrida and Dibra. In general, however, the Macedonian Slays differ somewhat both in appearance and character from their neighbors beyond the Bulgarian and Servian frontiers: the peculiar type which they present is probably due to a considerable admixture of Vlach, Hellenic~ Albanian and Turkish blood, and to the influence of the surrounding races. Almost all independent authorities, however, agree that the bulk of the Slavonic population of Macedonia is Bulgarian. The principal indication is furnished by the language, which, though resembling Servian in some respects (e.g. the case-endings, which are occasionally retained), presents most of the characteristic features of Bulgarian (see BULGARIA:

- Towards the close of the 4th century the country was devastated by the Goths and Avars, whose incursions possessed no lasting significance. It was otherwise with the great Slavonic immigration, which took place at intervals from the 3rd to the 7th century. An important ethnographic change was brought about, and the greater part of Macedonia was colonized by the invaders.

**************************
- U.S STATE DEPARTMENT
Foreign Relations Vol. VIII
Washington D.C.
Circular Airgram
(868.014/26 Dec. 1944)

The Secretary of State to Certain Diplomatic and Consular Officers*

The following is for your information and general guidance, but not for any positive action at this time.

The Department has noted with considerable apprehension increasing propaganda rumors and semi-official statements in favor of an autonomous Macedonia, emanating principally from Bulgaria, but also from Yugoslav Partisan and other sources, with the implication that Greek territory would be included in the projected state. "This Government considers talk of Macedonian "nation", Macedonian "Fatherland", or Macedonia "national consciousness" to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece".

The approved policy of this Government is to oppose any revival of the Macedonian issue as related to Greece. The Greek section of Macedonia is largely inhabited by Greeks, and the Greek people are almost unanimously opposed to the creation of a Macedonian state. Allegations of serious Greek participation in any such agitation can be assumed to be false. This Government would regard as responsible any Government or group of Governments tolerating or encouraging menacing or aggressive acts of "Macedonian Forces" against Greece.

The Department would appreciate any information pertinent to this subject which may come to your attention.

Secretary of State

***********************************
On June 19 1992, at a Managers Conference in Paris, Dr. Henry Kissinger made a statement about Greece's demand that Skopje should not be allowed to use the name "Macedonia".

During the questions time at the end of Henry Kissinger's presentation one of the questions was:

"What is your opinion for the problem which Greece have to accept the name Macedonia which the Scopia Government is trying to implement?"


Kissenger's reply was:

"Look, I believe that Greece is right to object and I agree with Athens. The reason is that I know History which is not the case with most of the others including most of the Government and Administration in Washington.
The strength of the Greek case is that of the History which I must say that Athens have not used so far with success."

***********************************
"The possible creation of a Macedonian free state within Greece to amalgamate with Marshal Tito's Federated Macedonia State, with is capital in Skopje...would fulfill the Slavic objectives of re-uniting the...province of Macedonia under Slavic rule, giving access of the sea to Bulgaria and Yugoslavia."

C. L. Sulzberger
THE NEW YORK TIMES
July 26, 1946

*********************************
Krste Misirkov 1903 Za Makedonckite Raboti (On Macedonian Matters)

"...We spokе the Bulgarian language and we believed with Bulgarians is our strong power...The future of Macedonia was in the spiritual union of the Bulgarians in Macedonia... The Macedonian Slavs were called Bulgarians...The biggest part of the population were called Bulgarians... All spoke that Macedonians are Bulgarians..."

He wrote in an article in the "20th of July" newspaper in Sofia, 1919: "Whether we call ourselves Bulgarians or Macedonians, we have always maintained a separate, unified, and different nationality from the Serbs, and we have Bulgarian consciousness." "Who is against Greater Bulgaria is against the Slavism. Bulgaria had been given the Cyrillic alphabet and Christianity to the Slavs, weapons against assimilation and tyranny..." In a separate publication in the Bulgarian newspaper "Mir" from 1919 he refers to the part of Macedonia occupied by Serbia as a "purely Bulgarian country", since the 6th century

According to historians in the Republic of Macedonia, Misirkov was the most prominent Macedonian publicist, philologist and linguist who allegedly set the principles of the Macedonian literary language in the late 19th century. In some of his writings he clearly identified the population of Macedonia as belonging to the Slavic populations, expressing the need for "we Slav peoples to unite our own Macedonian Slav population".

However his Bulgarian identity is shown too in the three last articles he wrote before his death: "Bulgarian school" - "Mir", XXXI,7457, 2 Mаy 1925[9] "School and Socialism" - "Мir", XXXI,7476,26 May 1925 [10], "Church and school" -"Мir" XXXII,7541,13 August 1925 [11] Also he was buried with aid from the Government as Director of Bulgarian school.

*********************************
the Macedonian Professor Vlado Popovski interprets the writings in Misirkov's diary in 1913, right after the Second Balkan War, as follows:

"He presents Bulgaria as martyr, who has undertaken the biggest burden from the war with the Turkish empire, it is a country that sacrificially heads to the realization of its national ideal for the unification of the Bulgarian lands, in which apart from Thrace, Missirkov includes also Macedonia. In the context, he presents a range of statements with which he justifies the Bulgarian interests in Macedonia and calls the Macedonians Macedonian Bulgarians. Accusing Russia of unfaithfulness and coarse nationalism, which has been frightened by the Great (San Stefano) Bulgaria, Missirkov recommends to it (Russia-ed.) at least to call for autonomy of Macedonia as a transition solution to unification with Bulgaria."

**********************************

- "Since they were closely related to both Bulgars and Serbs and had, moreover, in the past been usually incorporated in either the Bulgar or Serb state, they inevitably became the object of both Bulgar and Serb aspirations and an apple of discord between these rival nationalities. As an oppressed people on an exceedingly primitive level, the Macedonian Slavs had as late as the congress of Berlin exhibited no perceptible national consciousness of their own. It was therefore impossible to foretell in what direction they would lean when their awakening came; in fact, so indeterminate was the situation that under favorable circumstances they might even develop ther own peculiar Macedonian consciousness."

Ferdinand Schevill, "A History of the Balkans", p.432
- 20."In regard to their own national feelings, all that can safely be said is that during the last eighty years many more Slav Macedoniansseem to have considered themselves Bulgarian, or closely linked to Bulgaria, than have considered themselves Serbian, or closely linked to Serbia (or Yugoslavia). Only the people of the Skoplje region, in the north west, have ever shown much tendency to regard themselves as Serbs. The feeling of being Macedonians, and nothing but Macedonians, seems to be a sentiment of fairly recent growth, and even today is not very deep-rooted."
- "Although in some areas [of Macedonia] the various groups were all inextricably intermingled, it is pertinent to point out that in other sections a given race decidedly predominated. In the southern districts, for instance, and more particularly along the coast, the Greeks, a city people given to trade, had the upper hand, while to the north of them the Slavs, peasants for the most part working the soil, held sway. These Slavs may properly be considered as a special Macedonian group, but since they were closely related to both Bulgars and Serbs and had, moreover, in the past been usually incorporated in either the Bulgar or Serb state, they inevitably became the object of both Bulgar and Serb aspirations and an apple of discord between these rival nationalities. As an oppressed people on an exceedingly primitive level, the Macedonian Slavs had as late as the congress of Berlin exhibited no perceptible national consciousness of their own. It was therefore impossible to foretell in what direction they would lean when their awakening came; in fact, so indeterminate was the situation that under favorable circumstances they might even develop ther own particular Macedonian consciousness."

*******************************

[Elisabeth Barker, "Macedonia, its place in Balkan power politics",
(originally published in 1950 by the Royal Institute of International Affairs), p.10]
- In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888 Kuzman Shapkarev writes:
"But even stranger is the name Macedonians, which was imposed on us only 10 to 15 years ago by outsiders, and not as something by our own intellectuals... Yet the people in Macedonia know nothing of that ancient name, reintroduced today with a cunning aim on the one hand and a stupid one on the other. They know the older word: "Bugari", although mispronounced: they have even adopted it as peculiarly theirs, inapplicable to other Bulgarians. You can find more about this in the introduction to the booklets I am sending you. They call their own Macedono-Bulgarian dialect the "Bugarski language", while the rest of the Bulgarian dialects they refer to as the "Shopski language". (Makedonski pregled, IX, 2, 1934, p. 55; the original letter is kept in the Marin Drinov Museum in Sofia, and it is available for examination and study)

the original In Bulgarian:

"No pochudno e imeto Makedonci, koeto naskoro, edvay predi 10-15 godini, ni
natrapiha i to otvqn, a ne kakto nyakoi mislyat ot samata nasha
inteligenciya... Narodqt obache v Makedoniya ne znae nishto za tova
arhaichesko, a dnes, s lukava cel ot edna strana, s glupeshka ot druga,
podnoveno prozvishte; toy si znae postaroto: Bugari, makar i nepravilno
proiznasyano, daje osvoyava si go kato sobstveno i preimushtestveno svoe,
nejeli za drugite Bqlgari. Za tova shte vidite i v predgovora na izpratenite
mi knijici. Toy naricha Bugarski ezik svoeto Makaedono-bqlgarsko narechie,
kogato drugite bqlgarski narechiya naricha Shopski."

****************************************
"It is the national identity of these Slav Macedonians that has been the most violently contested aspect of the whole Macedonian dispute, and is still being contested today. There is no doubt that they are southern Slavs; they have a language, or a group of varying dialects, that is grammatically akin to Bulgarian but phonetically in some respects akin to Serbian, and which has certain quite distinctive features of its own."


Elisabeth Barker, "Macedonia, its place in Balkan power politics",
(originally published in 1950 by the Royal Institute of International Affairs), p.10

20."In regard to their own national feelings, all that can safely be said is that during the last eighty years many more Slav Macedonians seem to have considered themselves Bulgarian, or closely linked to Bulgaria, than have considered themselves Serbian, or closely linked to Serbia (or Yugoslavia). Only the people of the Skoplje region, in the north west, have ever shown much tendency to regard themselves as Serbs. The feeling of being Macedonians, and nothing but Macedonians, seems to be a sentiment of fairly recent growth, and even today is not very deep-rooted."
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Daniel
post Nov 8 2008, 11:50 AM
Post #7


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1. I am not
2. Vasil (Васил) means in power in Macedonian. Ва = In Сил=Power
3. I have answered it, you are just an idiot.
It means Victory in Thessaly, after the victory in Thessaly. And yes, I know the name has changed, but so has every cities name, yet for some reason Greeces cities have the same names, a bit weird donít you think. All cities, Moscow, Paris, London, all used to have different names, but Athens, Thessaloniki, Larisa, all exactly the same. And btw, its not just us that call it Solun, most if not all eastern European nations call it Solun. And to finish of TheSALONiki. Idiot.
4. I donít know
5. Yes it does
Маке = Mothers дон = House (domain) ија (as in poLAND, ireLAND)
6. Heritage? You are a fool. Does my heritage mean that I came from the Russian region? NO. I could become a Buddhist if I want, decorate my house so itís all feng shue, does that mean im from Eastern Asia. NO.

MODER SOURCES MAKESONSKI. Did I not say I donít want them? I done want a site saying that it happened, I want a site proving to me that it happened. I want Roman records, Byzantine records, anything from that time. But all I get is an article simply stating that it happened. I could write an article stating that the Greeks came from Mars, does that mean that it is correct. NO

So please shoe me something about the migration, not some bull shit from a conference in Paris, or some false claim from "On Macedonian matter', cause guess what, thats not in the original version.

This post has been edited by Daniel: Nov 8 2008, 11:50 AM


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makedonski
post Nov 10 2008, 12:25 AM
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ALL HAIL DANIEL THE FRAUD
1. um........Yes you did ........NOT ONLY ARE YOU THICK AS A BRICK BUT YOUR A LIAR TO BOOT. Here is exactly what you penned;

I love the fact that you added letters to the ends of the names of the names of the kings of the Macedonian dynasty, like 867-886 Vasilios I lol
The correct set of names is
* Basil I
* Leo VI
* Alexander
* Constantine VII

the laughter is on you ...........Basil is the anglicised version of the true Greek pronounciation, ie, VASILEOS(ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ) meaning King or emperor.............you should know this by the many Macedonian coins uneducated trollop.........look up ancient Macedonian coins if you don't believe me..........but I must warn you the inscriptions are in Greek....sorry.

The above is FACT.....get that in your omega 3 deficient brain...............classical professors would roll their eyes at your pathetic posts......

2. This again highlights how much you people have no idea of how autochthonous Doric Macedonian words are pronounced or mean...................Vasil? Β.Α.Σ.Ι.Λ.Ε.Ω.Σ buddy.................again look up original Macedonian coins.

3. Does the word Солун actually mean victory over the Thessalonians?.
Firstly you find it weird why we have retained the names Thessaloniki, Athens, Larissa whilst others have changed the names for their old cities of London, Paris....etc?

Of all the idiotic responses I have ever read..........this one must take the bitchka cake.

The reason why the Greeks haven't changed their cities names is because, um, WE DON'T FUCKEN HAVE TO.
Macedonians called the city ΘΕΣΣΑΛΟΝΙΚΗΣ then, now and forever.
The BIBLE called and still calls it Thessaloniki and Thessalonians............go change the bible to refer to Солун...... idiot.

The term Солун is completely alien to Macedonians and you should be ashamed of continuing to use it........

4. Damn right...........just like the word Αλέξανδρος, they have no meaning in your language.
5. Really? Μακεδόνας actually has a meaning in your language.......do tell.
6. I am the fool? your own fucking sites proudly proclaim a Slavic heritage...........but you feel ashamed to claim it for some reason? Is being slavic something your really ashamed of to the point where you have to come on this site and reject and mention of it ?

7. Oh I'm sorry........so you don't want any modern sources of your countries Slavic migrations? even if these sites include ones from your own country and from your own very people ?...............sites and people that one would think wouldn't be posting such Greek 'propoganda" ?...........what a hypocrite and fraud you really are.

So not only do you reject what we tell you, but apparently also from what your own people say? confusion reigns in the Banovina Vardaska.

and what false claims from "On macedonian matters".............did he or did he NOT pen these quotes below his memoirs himself in his book Za Makedonckite Raboti ?

Daniel are you calling Krste Misirkov the Macedonian a LIAR, a FRAUD?
............in case you missed his quotes again;

"...We spokе the Bulgarian language and we believed with Bulgarians is our strong power...The future of Macedonia was in the spiritual union of the Bulgarians in Macedonia... The Macedonian Slavs were called Bulgarians...The biggest part of the population were called Bulgarians... All spoke that Macedonians are Bulgarians..."

"we Slav peoples to unite our own Macedonian Slav population"

If they aren't his quotes, pls inform us what he did say instead and post these references from, um hopefully, non Slav Maco sites.

As for providing you with original material proving that Slavs settled in present day Macedonia............where do you suppose these modern sites, including in your country, got their material from? osmosis maybe ?

Are you able to post credible non modern texts of the pre 10th century, where it is stated categorically that no invasions and settlement of the Slavs occurred into these areas? ..................hhmm

It was the Byzantine historians and Kings(sorry Vasil to you) that penned and recorded the coming tide of invasions and settlement of your people Daniel..............when I get the chance I will dig these up for you.....

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_pau...postoli_en.html

"For the purposes of evangelization, the two holy Brothers(Cyril & Methodius)as their biographies indicate-undertook the difficult task of translating the texts of the Sacred Scriptures, which they knew in Greek, into the language of the Slav population which had settled along the borders of their own region and native city."

hhhmmm...... settled along the borders of their region and native city...........Thessaloniki..........does this region where the Slavs settled Daniel ring a bell in your cranial void ?

Autochthonous Doric Macedonians - converted to christianity by St Paul the Apostle, 1st Century AD

Slavic Macedonians - Converted to christianity by St Cyril & Methodius, Apostles to the Slavs, 9th Century AD
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Daniel
post Nov 11 2008, 08:32 AM
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Greeks are from Mars


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Daniel
post Nov 11 2008, 08:35 AM
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I see that short answers are not enough for you, even if I have given you the complete answers.

1. I have said this many times, they language was used for trade and commerce, trade and commerce, trade and commerce, trade and commerce, trade and commerce, trade and commerce. And what are coins, COMMERCE.

2. Again, the Koine language was used for trade and commerce, much as English is today. So are we all Patriotic English men now?

3. Many cities that have been made years after Salonika have not retained their original name:
Kaerlud/ Kaerludein/ Londonium: London
Parisii: Paris
Notice a trend, after years, the names are shortened, made easier for the local population. And its not only us that call it Solun, most of Eastern Europe do.

So letís look at how Solun is not an alien name
Thessaloniki/Salonika/Solun
It is a gradual progression that happens to many cities.

4. Again, donít know

5. Yes it does have a meaning in our language
Маќе = Mother
Дон = Home
Those are the literal translations of Makedon. It very simply means motherland.

6. I am not ashamed of my Slavic heritage, I speak a language in the Slavic subgroup, and I understand and ok with that, however, you are trying to, just as many have before, state that language = ethnicity, which it absolutely does not.

7. No I donít, cause here is why

QUOTE
Greeks are from mars
as stated by this website http://www.greekplanet.com.au/forum/index....st&p=114838

Does this mean that it is true, no, any idiot can write something, but only a man with intelligence can show me proof from medieval times

You are the one claiming I am a Slav, and this thread is about why I am a Slav, so the onus is on you.

This post has been edited by Daniel: Nov 11 2008, 08:38 AM


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makedonski
post Nov 12 2008, 12:04 AM
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A lack of pharmacies in your neighbourhood is not an excuse to take out your obvious side effects on this forum. However, lets continue with your education.

1. I'm kinda hoping you break the riddle here...........lets see;

Daniel stated :
I love the fact that you(Hellenic Patriot) added letters to the ends of the names of the names of the kings of the Macedonian dynasty, like 867-886 Vasilios I lol
The correct set of names is
* Basil I
* Leo VI
* Alexander
* Constantine VII

Then I responded:
the laughter is on you ...........(why anglicise the names) Basil is the anglicised version of the true Greek pronounciation, ie, VASILEOS(ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ) meaning King or emperor.........

Daniel then responded:
I have said this many times, they language was used for trade and commerce, trade and commerce, trade and commerce, trade and commerce, trade and commerce, trade and commerce. And what are coins, COMMERCE.

1. What are you actually debating here?
a) That hellenic Patriot got it all wrong(remember you did a LOL on him), ie, Basileos(Βασίλειος) wasn't what was used in all official Byzantine records/accounts/documents?
b) That they went by other names like Васил(Vasil), Basil, Barry or Bazza in official Byzantine records instead ?
c) or that because Greek was the prima lingua in the empire, the Macedonian Byzantine dynasty didn't/couldn't/wouldn't use the slav variant of Васил(Vasil) ?
d) That Basil actually used Васил when using his native tongue?
e) or that ancient Macedonians weren't allowed to mint coins in their own separate language?

2. Koine, Attic, Doric.........all used for trade and commerce in antiquity......correct. So if autochthonous Macedonian kings used the title ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ in all their formal engagements and because they used Koine for "trade and commerce, trade and commerce, trade and commerce and what are coins commerce" ............what did they use when they weren't trading or conducting engagements, ie, to their fellow kinsmen?
a) Tsar?
b) Khan?
c) Васил ?
d) Kralj or Краљ?
e) Barry?

3. Agree that many cites have had their original names slightly or completely changed over time, however, what you failed to mention is that are many cities that have retained their original toponyms. For example, Roma, Alexandria, Baghdad, Venezia, Napoli, Jerusalem, Cordoba. You could argue this either way, but my debate concerns the fact that the term Solun only first appeared sometime after the 10 century AD coinciding with a certain migration of peoples into the southern balkans............hhmm.

4. If someone like you doesn't know..........doesn't that tell you something ?
5. So Makedon means motherland in your language? How disturbing that you guys have no idea of the actual etymology of the word Makedon which consequently has nothing to do with "motherland". Even more surprising is that the people who claim descendancy from the people who first used this don't know of it's origins? This topic is now bordering on the comical.

6. We seem to have some momentum now. So you now have no issue with having a Slavic heritage/ culture but are finding it difficult to equate your slavic language with your ethnicity ? Your damn right I am associating your language with your ethnicity here because it has an important meaning in this debate. To keep it simple:
a) Do you agree or not that this language of yours was introduced a long, long time ago to educate your kinsmen and other Slavs in the teachings of the Christians as they couldn't understand the Greek translations?
b ) Do you agree or not that your descendants were converted to christianity in the 1st century AD by St Paul the apostle?
c) Do you agree or not that just prior to this education period, that there was a complete migration of non balkan peoples crossing on mass into the Balkans?
d) Do you agree or not that these people crossing into these areas became the dominant in populace and culture?
e) Are you by any chance familiar with the term Brsjaci and it's significance in this debate?

7. Yes your correct, any idiot can post anything on the internet, but does that make it true you ask? Well if the idiot(s) just happens to be from your own sites, then I am sorry to say Daniel............it is true.

The onus is not on us to prove to you anything as your own Makedonski sites have greatly assisted the onus issue. You seem to forget this is a Hellenic site..............we do things on our terms not yours. If you want to assign an onus.........assign it to Greeks on your own sites.

.............just look at these Greek propaganda sites with their claims of Macedonian slavic heritage and ethnicity! ;

http://www.culture.org.mk/ebrod%20frames.htm
Later, with the arrival of Slavs to the Balkan peninsula, the Slavic tribe Berziti (Brsjaci) settled here.

http://www.makedonija.info/slavs.html
Today's Macedonians know who they are. They trace their name to the empire of Alexander the Great in the fourth century B.C. They trace their ethnicity to the Slavs...and their faith to the Byzantine Empire that brought them into the Eastern Orthodox Church.
http://www.ohrid.org.mk/eng/istorija/sloveni.htm
It is certain that towards the end of VI century the Ohrid region was exposed to a mass Slavic colonization. In the 3rd decade of VII century the region of Ohrid was completely colonized by the Slav tribe of Berzites. In the 2nd decade of VII century this tribe, alongside other tribes, including Draguvites, Sagudates and Velegizites, entered into a grand Slavic alliance lead by the Slav leader Hatczon
http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/058/slavs.htm
Numerous Slavonic tribes inhabited Macedoniain the twenties of the 7th century. The Dragovites settled along the river Bistritsa and west of Thessalonika. the Velegisites settled next to them and to the north of them, between Ohrid, Bitola and Veles, settled the Versites (Brsyaks). The Sagoudats lived close to Thessalonika, east of them lived the Rinchininies, along the valley of the river Struma and Strumeshnitsa lived the Strumyans and on the east of the river Mesta lived the Smolyans. In the second half of the IX century the Dragovites, the Sagoudats, the Velegisites, the Vayunites, the Berzites had their own sklavinii. The sklavini were governed by arhonti (egsarhi) and some Slavonic tribes were ruled by regesi.
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JIMMYJUMP
post Nov 12 2008, 10:21 AM
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QUOTE (Daniel @ Nov 6 2008, 02:50 PM) *
i did ask for proof of a migration, but why not, as long as we get to the proof later.

I love the fact that you added letters to the ends of the names of the names of the kings of the Macedonian dynasty, like 867-886 Vasilios I lol

The correct set of names is
* Basil I
* Leo VI
* Alexander
* Constantine VII
* Romanos I
* Romanos II
* Nikephoros II
* John I
* Basil II
* Constantine VIII
* Zoe I
* Romanos III
* Michael IV
* Michael V
* Theodora
* Constantine IX
* Theodora

Alot less Greek now arent they.


Daniel you goose, are you trying to imply those names such as Basil are not Greek?

Lets begin. The name Basil:

Derived from Greek βασιλευς (basileus) meaning "king". Saint Basil the Great was a 4th-century bishop of Caesarea and one of the fathers of the early Christian church. Due to him, the name (in various spellings) has come into general use in the Christian world, being especially popular among Eastern Christians. It was also borne by two Byzantine emperors.

Source: http://www.behindthename.com/name/basil-1

The name 'Basil' (royal, kingly), pronounced as BAZ-el [ˈbśzɪl], has origins from the male Greek name Βασίλειος[1] (female version Bασιλική[2]) which first appeared during the Hellenistic period. It is derived from "basile΄us" (Greek: βασιλεύς) a Greek word of pre-Hellenic origin meaning "king", from which words such as basilica and basilisk (via Latin), as well as the eponymous herb (via Old French) derive (also the name of the Italian region Basilicata, which had been long under the rule of the Byzantine Emperor, called "Basile΄us" in Greek).

It was brought to England by the Crusaders, having been common in the eastern Mediterranean. It's more often used in Britain and Europe than in the US and is also the name of a common herb. In Arabic, the name means "brave". Different derived names in different languages include: Basile in French; Basilius in German; Basilio in Italian and Spanish and Vasil in Bulgarian and Albanian.

Basil has many variant forms: Basile, Basilic, Basilides, Basileios, Basilie, Basilio, Basilius, Bazeel, Bazeelius, Bazil, Bazyli, Vasil, Vasile, Vaseleos, Vasileos, Vasilije, Vasilios[3], Vasilios[4], Vasilius, Vasilus, Vassilis[5], Vasili, Vassili, Vasily, Vassilij, Vassily[6] and Wassily[7].

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilius


Theodore/Theodora:

From the Greek name Θεοδωρος (Theodoros), which meant "gift of god" from Greek θεος (theos) "god" and δωρον (doron) "gift". This was the name of several saints, including Theodore of Amasea, a 4th-century Greek soldier; Theodore of Tarsus, a 7th-century archbishop of Canterbury; and Theodore the Studite, a 9th-century Byzantine monk. It was also borne by two popes.

This was a common name in classical Greece, and, due to both the saints who carried it and the favourable meaning, it came into general use in the Christian world, being especially popular among Eastern Christians. It was however rare in Britain before the 19th century. Famous bearers include three tsars of Russia (in the Russian form Fyodor), American president Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919) and American children's book creator Theodore Seuss Geisel (1904-1991), better known as Dr. Seuss.

Source: http://www.behindthename.com/name/theodore

QUOTE
Vasil (Васил) means in power in Macedonian. Ва = In Сил=Power


Who cares what it means in your language, the word originated from the Greeks. Whats next, your going to lay claim to that word as yours?

All sources provided are from neutral sites, so don't even try to claim they are unbiased Daniel.


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JIMMYJUMP
post Nov 12 2008, 10:25 AM
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QUOTE (makedonski @ Nov 12 2008, 01:04 AM) *
.

.............just look at these Greek propaganda sites with their claims of Macedonian slavic heritage and ethnicity! ;

http://www.culture.org.mk/ebrod%20frames.htm
Later, with the arrival of Slavs to the Balkan peninsula, the Slavic tribe Berziti (Brsjaci) settled here.

http://www.makedonija.info/slavs.html
Today's Macedonians know who they are. They trace their name to the empire of Alexander the Great in the fourth century B.C. They trace their ethnicity to the Slavs...and their faith to the Byzantine Empire that brought them into the Eastern Orthodox Church.
http://www.ohrid.org.mk/eng/istorija/sloveni.htm
It is certain that towards the end of VI century the Ohrid region was exposed to a mass Slavic colonization. In the 3rd decade of VII century the region of Ohrid was completely colonized by the Slav tribe of Berzites. In the 2nd decade of VII century this tribe, alongside other tribes, including Draguvites, Sagudates and Velegizites, entered into a grand Slavic alliance lead by the Slav leader Hatczon
http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/058/slavs.htm
Numerous Slavonic tribes inhabited Macedoniain the twenties of the 7th century. The Dragovites settled along the river Bistritsa and west of Thessalonika. the Velegisites settled next to them and to the north of them, between Ohrid, Bitola and Veles, settled the Versites (Brsyaks). The Sagoudats lived close to Thessalonika, east of them lived the Rinchininies, along the valley of the river Struma and Strumeshnitsa lived the Strumyans and on the east of the river Mesta lived the Smolyans. In the second half of the IX century the Dragovites, the Sagoudats, the Velegisites, the Vayunites, the Berzites had their own sklavinii. The sklavini were governed by arhonti (egsarhi) and some Slavonic tribes were ruled by regesi.



Daniel, your own sites claim you are Slavic, and soon you will see from neutral sources more evidence.


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JIMMYJUMP
post Nov 12 2008, 10:34 AM
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QUOTE (Daniel @ Nov 11 2008, 09:35 AM) *
6. I am not ashamed of my Slavic heritage, I speak a language in the Slavic subgroup, and I understand and ok with that, however, you are trying to, just as many have before, state that language = ethnicity, which it absolutely does not.



You are the one claiming I am a Slav, and this thread is about why I am a Slav, so the onus is on you.


Is this an oxymoron? You say you are not ashamed of your Slavic heritage, and then we have to prove or the onus is on us to prove you are Slavic?

Then, if you have a Slavic heritage, which you clearly state you are above, then how the fuck are you related to the Ancient Macedonians?


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JIMMYJUMP
post Nov 12 2008, 10:56 AM
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Now for the final blow Daniel.

Firstly, to counter act on your claim about ethnicity and linguistics;

The Slavic peoples are an ethnic and linguistic branch of Indo-European peoples, living mainly in Europe.

Slavic peoples are classified geographically into West Slavic (including Czechs, Kashubians, Poles, Moravians, Slovaks, Silesians and Sorbs), East Slavic (including Belarusians, Russians, and Ukrainians), and South Slavic (including Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Croats, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Serbs and Slovenes).


Origin of the term Slav


Excluding the ambiguous mention by Ptolemy of tribes Stavanoi and Soubenoi, the earliest references of "Slavs" under this name are from the 6th century AD. The word is written variously as Sklabenoi, Sklauenoi, or Sklabinoi in Byzantine Greek, and as Sclaueni, Sclauini, or Sthlaueni in Latin. The oldest documents written in Old Church Slavonic and dating from the 9th century attest slověne to describe the Slavs around Thessalonica. Other early attestations include Old Russian slověně "an East Slavic group near Novgorod", Slovutich "Dnieper river", and Croatian Slavonica, a river.

This is consistent with historical facts about the migration of Slavonic tribes into Southern Europe.



The spread of the Slavs in the 5-10th centuries above.

Slavic migrations
Slavic tribes c. AD 700.
Purported presence of South Slavic tribes c. 700.

Prior to becoming known to the Roman world, Slavic speaking tribes were part of the many multi-ethnic confederacies of Eurasia- such as the Sarmatian, Hun and Gothic empires.[19]The Slavs emerged from obscurity when the westward movement of Germans in the 5th and 6th centuries AD (necessitated by the onslaught of people from Siberia and Eastern Europe: Huns, and later Avars and Bulgars) started the great migration of the Slavs, who settled the lands abandoned by Germanic tribes fleeing the Huns and their allies: westward into the country between the Oder and the Elbe-Saale line; southward into Bohemia, Moravia, much of present day Austria, the Pannonian plain and the Balkans; and northward along the upper Dnieper river. Perhaps some Slavs migrated with the movement of the Vandals to Iberia and north Africa.[20].

Ethno-cultural subdivisions
Present-day distribution of Slavic languages and language groups.

Slavs are customarily divided along geographical lines into three major subgroups: East Slavs, West Slavs, and South Slavs, each with a different and a diverse background based on unique history, religion and culture of particular Slavic group within them. The East Slavs may all be traced to Slavic-speaking populations that were loosely organized under the Kievan Rus' empire beginning in the 10th century A.D. Almost all of the South Slavs can be traced to ethnic Slavs who mixed with the local European population of the Balkans (Illyrians, Dacians/Thracians, Greeks); with some Slavs of modern-day Bulgaria mixing with later invaders from the East, the Bulgars, then fell under the hegemony of the Ottoman Empire. The West Slavs and Slovenes do not share either of these backgrounds, as they expanded to the West and integrated into the cultural sphere of Western (Roman Catholic) Christianity around this time also mixing with nearby Germanic tribes.

Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_peoples

Not a mention about a linguistic slav anywhere.

There are also 1.4 million Macedonians in the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, which achieved independence after the collapse of Yugoslavia in 1989. These South Slavs reached Macedonia in the 600s AD.

Source: http://staff.lib.msu.edu/sowards/balkan/lecture1.html

More sources http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_peoples

Again, all non biased sites which clearly prove you are a Slav, have a Slavic heritage, and in no way you or your countrymen(except those who left Greece during the civil war) can lay claim to be Ethnic Macedonians from 300 BC.

So Daniel, now that I have proved you are in fact a Slav, what do you have to say?


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Daniel
post Nov 18 2008, 12:50 PM
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God, but you are going to love what i have to say about this......no where does it show proof that the slavs migrated. Yes, it states it, but it shows no evidence of it.

Good luck next time


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post Nov 18 2008, 05:37 PM
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QUOTE (Daniel @ Nov 18 2008, 01:50 PM) *
God, but you are going to love what i have to say about this......no where does it show proof that the slavs migrated. Yes, it states it, but it shows no evidence of it.

Good luck next time



No proof? Have a close read moron. Denial is a curse.



The spread of the Slavs in the 5-10th centuries above.

Slavic migrations
Slavic tribes c. AD 700.
Purported presence of South Slavic tribes c. 700.

Read again, Slavic migrations

One more time

Slavic migrations.

No proof?

Are you fucken stupid? The proof has been provided. Are you claiming all the academics are wrong, so is wiki?

Your stupidity amazes me.

So here you have it. You are a Slav, you will die a Slav. If you choose to ignore overwhelming historical, academic, ethno-cultural studies on the Slavic migration, then that is your problem. There is no point in even trying to reason or even have a debate if you ignore the FACTS. Now, piss off to maknews and Ristov, and play your games there.

Ciao Slav.


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post Nov 18 2008, 05:38 PM
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QUOTE (Daniel @ Nov 4 2008, 12:25 PM) *
I have had enough of begging on other threads for information, so here is your chance. Tell me why i am a Slav. And i dont want modern souses, nor do i want something that implies language=ethnicity, i want hard evidence of a large scale migration that happened in the 6th century and not some small invasions. So please, enlighten me.


Evidence provided, you choose to ignore it.


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